the tribes are not equal

"you only say this because you *are* an effective altruist! of course you want to
impose the values of your tribe on everyone else! that's what every tribe wants!"

"yes, but your tribe is the tribe of 'do whatever is best for my family and fuck the rest', and my tribe is the tribe of 'think deeply and care about everyone's wellbeing and try to do whatever helps improve all our lives', which kind of seems like it occupies a bit of a privileged position when it comes to imposing a global value structure"

"the whole concept of imposing a global value structure is disgusting to most value structures that aren't yours! we don't want global imposition, we want to be left alone!"

"sure but that's not happening. it's just not an option and you have to know that by now. something is getting imposed, and almost all other value structures actually include way more top down imposition! what do you think your personal day to day life would look like in the future if ASI was aligned by a islam or christian fundamentalist? effective altruism comes with notions of caring about extremely diverse individual values and trying to satisfy them in ways that don't interfere with or harm others, that's the point"

"they aren't my tribe, and from my perspective they have earned little to no trust. their public works amount to some charity, some public scandals, and a near immediate grab at global power through technology while fearmongering about the outcome. there are countless religions who have executed a similar playbook in many ways, who tried to claim moral superiority while having no such thing in truth, who only cared about the power of their tribe. the risk of handing over the planet to the group that acts most holier than thou at the time is insane. if we don't have true competitive pressure, humanity is lost."

"well. all i can say is, i really think this time it's different."

@tenobrus

@jon_stokes @tszzl @StefanFSchubert i'm happy to say the quiet part out loud: actually yeah humanity will be far far better off if they're subjected to the values of effective altruists, even against their (short-sighted) will, vs some kind of democratic process